I also love the stops along the Q, but I am not a fan of the R160 trains that seem here to stay on our line. While I appreciate that they are cleaner and tell the time in easy to read red numbers, they are really best suited for tourists and Manhattan riders. For those of us who ride the Q train at least 10 times a week and commute 30 to 45 minutes on that line, these trains just mean fewer seats and an unnecessary LED route map.The R160 has 44 seats per car (or 40 on the cars with space for wheelchairs), and that's assuming no one takes up more than his or her allotted seat. And without seat markers like on the older Q trains, it's easier for people to take more than one seat. The older Q trains have 70 seats. That's a big difference. The lack of seats is fine if you're taking the L train, another R160, a few short stops from Union Square to Bedford Avenue for the best vegan pizza in the city, but when you're on the train as long as we are coming into Manhattan from Flatbush, it's nice to have a seat. It's also nice to have a seat because the poles are so high and they don't stick out far enough, requiring me to practically stand on top of the people sitting in order to reach them.
Also, I don't know about you, but I have the Q route down, and I know exactly how many stops I have left before I get home. I understand how helpful the light-up station map is for people who don't usually ride the Q, but when it's stuck on Canal Street half the time or just completely blank (pictured) it becomes irrelevant.
These new trains are an example of the MTA putting tourists and Manhattanites before the people of the outer boroughs. These trains are designed for people who get on for a few stops and then get off again, bouncing from Times Square to Union Square and never crossing the Manhattan Bridge. The MTA is sacrificing our comfort in their effort to pack more of us onto one train. And what's next, seatless trains, where they squeeze riders in like cattle? Actually, yes, according to this article.
The R160 may have a better color scheme and airbag suspension, but I'm not sold on them at all. What are your thoughts about the new trains?
11 comments:
I like them.
It's rare that I get a seat on a train, so the fact that there are fewer seats is a bonus to me. That means there are fewer people sticking their legs out to take up perfectly good standing room!
There are fewer seats because there's slightly more room on each side of the doors. It adds up. You can have two people on each side of a door refusing to budge, and STILL there's room to move people between them. Not so on the older cars. It means people can get on and off the trains (usually in that order) faster. Most of the time is spent waiting in stations. A slight, but significant, reduction in that time adds up.
The flexible signage is most important not when everything runs smoothly, but when trains have to be rerouted. That's when folks used to their commute routine need it most, and the electronic signs can simply load up the station listings for the new route the train is following.
And even seasoned subway riders do take trains when they're not commuting. They can use those signs just as much as the "tourists." We're all tourists somewhere in the city.
I'm totally with you on the new wider doors thing. I love that aspect of the new trains. But I gotta side with Katie about the seats issue.
We just moved from a place near the Beverley Road stop, and that's where we really could feel the difference between the new and old trains.
Every now and then when two Manhattan bound Qs would not be spaced out perfectly, we'd be able to wait out the late (and extremely crowded) train and get on the train running right behind it and we'd have our pick of seats, usually together. This never happened when the new trains were rolled out. We would still let the really crowded trains pass us, but when we got on the train running right behind the late one, all the seats were taken. Usually the last open spots were snatched up by Cortelyou folks.
Since moving to the area around the Newkirk station, we have better odds of getting a seat, but we're usually the last stop to get seats.
It just seems like the new trains weren't well thought out. What's wrong with installing little flip up seats at the ends of the cars like on the L trains? I'm all for making everything handicapped accessible, but so far I haven't seen a single wheelchair in those spots- only tired, old commuters who have to lean against an empty wall.
I HATE the new Q trains! They lack personality and character. I miss the conductors - whose voices I am so familiar with (always looking forward inparticular to the 8:15AM Cortelyou guy). The computer pronuciation of "DeKalb" throws me off everytime, and makes me long for the orange and yellow seats of yore.
While I do find myself standing a lot more often on the new trains (the orange seats on the old trains we both more plentiful and showed you where your butt goes)... The new trains seem to be smoother -- though I think that has given the drivers license to drive around curves like they're slingshotting a satellite around the moon. (e.g., the curve between Union Sq and Canal)
My BIG problem with the new trains is that the route signs NEVER work. They always say crazy things. But, strangely, the red LCD displays on the ceiling are correct... why don't these two things use the same data?! Very strange - and annoying.
Anoymous at 7:42 - I know which conductor you're talking about and I really like him too. There is also an after-work Q conductor who says cute things like "There's a B train across the platform, for all you B lovers." The subway is so impersonal and those voices always make the experience a little more human, but I guess automated voices are what the future holds.
Tyler,
I will miss those seat markers too. They were a great way of letting people know if they were taking up too much space. Now I'll just have to guesstimate that the guy sitting next to me with his legs completely wide open is encroaching on my personal space.
GET OVER IT FLATBUSH VEGAN!!!!! we in the bronx have been used to these trains on the 2, 4, 5 and 6 trains for over 6 years now and they are FINE! As for the people who take more than one seat do what i always do...I ask them (politely) to kindly scoot over so that i can sit and i've said that to the meanest of looking people and they always happily comply. Stop your whining and get off your lazy bum and stand! it's new york city and we have a population of over 8 million people.
Its terrible, but when its busy, its busy. The subway is running at capacity and can't make more capacity, so what can you do? MTA could hire pushers to squeeze people into cars like in Japan. You want yr own seat into Brooklyn, ride a bike.
You're absolutely right about the new trains. They're enough to make me seriously consider moving out of the neighborhood.
There are still a few older Q trains left running, and some of them still run at rush hour. I've had to start getting up for work earlier and waiting a few trains before finding one with an empty seat - I get panic attacks on trains which are usually dispelled by getting a seat. The 8:30 Avenue H train is now usually a new train, but I've had decent luck with the 8:40.
Aside from the larger doors (which seems a pretty pathetic plus) I really can't see any advantage to this design of train - why reduce the number of seats? I realize it gives more standing room, but for what is essentially a commuter train, what's the point? The last thing we need is more smelly people shoved together.
Anyone against the new trains are crazy. Not only are they a hell of a lot cleaner and have floors that are smooth and not coming up like some of the older trains but the lighting is better and never goes out like some of the old Q trains lights did. The map boards do help when train is rerouted or if a friend is visiting me who is not from Brooklyn it is a lot easier for them, although I admit sometimes don't work but those bugs will be fixed in time im sure.
I was tired of those outdated orange and yellow seats. And if the speakers worked in the old trains and you could actually understand the accent of the train conductor on the old train then kudos to you. But i much rather hear a clear automated voice then what I was used to with the old trains especially at night coming home when you tired its easier to hear.
Welcome to 2009 people get used to new.
Ugh. The less lighting the better. The Q train isn't necessarily known for it's beautiful people, so the less I can see them, the better. I always thought it was cool when the lights went out, especially when we went through tunnels.
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